Atkins Labcast: Episode 59 - Hugh Freytag, Cinematographer and Photographer (Interview)
Paul sits down with Colleen Raven Strangways and discusses her award winning photography that has been featured at the Ballarat International Foto Bienale as well as Tarnanthi at the Art Gallery of South Australia and much more.
Instagram
@hughfreytag
Credits
The Movie Database
IMDb
Mentioned in the podcast:
Ribspreader (2022, Movie - Horror)
The Still Point: Photography of Robert McFarlane (2017, Movie - Documentary)
Apple - Spotify - Buzzsprout
TRANSCRIPT
Paul Atkins: 0:16
Welcome to the Atkins Labcast. I have a special treat for you, Cinephiles and lovers of striking black and white photography. Today's interview is with Hugh Freytag. Hugh is a cinematographer and photographer working here in South Australia. He's worked on such films as the 2022 horror feature Rib Spreader. The world is lightly peppered with people like Hugh quietly working away on their passion, and it's right to stop and take a look at their work, and it's even better to sit down and have a chat with a truly resolute and talented person and find out what drives them. Hope you enjoy this interview. So we're here on the beautiful Ghana Land sitting together in my office with Hugh Freytag, who we've been in parallel for a bit for quite a few years. Yes, that's correct. Um, thanks to a mutual friend. Yes. Uh and I've watched what you do, and you're one of the first people I followed on in Instagram as a result of us knowing Tony Canny together. We were in Hearts Mill together in the packing shed. Yes, a few years ago. And there was, and this was actually a little after I knew you, but it my curiosity was piqued even further when I think Tony said, ignore the blood in the corner of the room that was oozing up through the floorboards. Oh, that yes. The the b the blood in the corner of the room easing uh oozing up through the floorboards. How's that for an opener for a podcast? Can you just tell us what the blood's all about, Q?
Hugh Freytag: 1:49
Yes, there was for several years, uh I noticed at least two or three years, um there was a lot of uh blood spilt in that room and around the place. For a film that I worked on, which I was a director of photography, a friend of mine, Dick Dale, great man, made a uh interesting uh grunge horror film type of thing. And uh we used the Hearts Mill as a set for what would have been six weeks on and off, and we spilt a lot of fake blood in different kinds. And it was so dramatic that uh afterwards uh got into the floorboards uh was still reappearing. You know. It's oozing. Oozing back out, yes. So yes, I used to tell people why. And uh yeah, so it's uh interesting film. Yeah. So yes, called RibSpreader.
Paul Atkins: 2:49
RibSpreader. We'll have a link to that in case there are people who can handle the horror. Yes. Unlike me. Um and I'm but the the Hearts Mill we should also explain to people is a uh a renewed essay or a new Adelaide project, and that it's an old abandoned building that they do use for art projects and and community events. Part of it is part of the complex is renovated, most of it is off bounds and locked up. But as a film crew, you're in your location seeking, that was picked as a great spot for it. And I think it's amazing. Yes, it worked very well.
Hugh Freytag: 3:24
We've uh built uh sets there as well for miniature. Anyway, we won't go into that film much.
Paul Atkins: 3:31
But it's a you're a director of photography. Well and one of your guises in life. Yes. I've worked on films since well, seriously, since the I'd say early nineties.
Hugh Freytag: 3:47
And continued on and off um doing various different jobs, and then I mean shooting some features over the last few years as well.
Paul Atkins: 3:54
So as a director of photography, um, because I find that the um the film world is is quite obscure. Um I can never work out. There's so many people involved in making one thing. And I know there are stills photographers on set, and I understand Matt Netheim and Sam Oster and all, you know, people who've done stills, and I'm sure you have as well. There's that. Then there's also people who run around with a camera on set. Uh so we've got people like that. But then we have how does the film actually make it onto the screen stuff? And of course, that's that's the mystery for me. Yes. Uh so what does a DP do?
Hugh Freytag: 4:33
Uh director of photography.
Paul Atkins: 4:35
Do they run the camera?
Hugh Freytag: 4:36
They well, they're uh answer directly to producers and directors to create what is required for the film, I suppose, and style and or uh that sort of stuff. Um it's more important years ago, but now it's becoming less important because of uh technology is changing things dramatically. Whereas it's more of interest to be a colorist or a grader, as we used to call it. Uh because uh everyone wants to shoot uh video.
Paul Atkins: 5:19
Um So the real challenge is getting all that to look like it belongs together. Is that what we're talking about?
Hugh Freytag: 5:24
Well well that's originally what it is, yes. So you have to have some sort of skill on working with lighting and camera movement and all that sort of stuff. Um and uh it as I said, it's varying because uh Yes, I'll go into it as best I can. Um it's becoming very difficult to actually uh have some sort of control over image uh because there's always someone else that thinks better.
Paul Atkins: 5:54
So is it you're talking about there's now a committee designing a movie, the look of a movie, rather than a unique vision? Uh well, no.
Hugh Freytag: 6:03
There's only ever been one or two films that I've shot where I actually have my vision put into it, it's always just a job.
Paul Atkins: 6:11
So that's the way it is. So it's DP, you're you're not the director, it's not your vision, you're making someone else's vision come to life. Yes. But I I'd imagine as your reputation is gained, they know what you can do, and then you will be a bit of collaboration with some directors, surely.
Hugh Freytag: 6:26
Yeah, it'd be better to be called a cinematographer, I think. Right. Uh well the old English thing was lighting cameraman, which had uh more uh zing to it back in those days.
Paul Atkins: 6:39
Was that because of knowing how to get the image on film reliably? Because film you don't know until it's processed. So the money involved and the risk.
Hugh Freytag: 6:48
Yeah.
Paul Atkins: 6:49
Uh so do you think that's where what has caused this drift away?
Hugh Freytag: 6:52
No, it's just the excess ability to uh on computers for anyone to do anything.
Paul Atkins: 6:58
You know, everyone people editing uh feature films on laptops and uh it's wouldn't is there a side to that that would suggest that's a good thing? I mean, isn't that it's not there was a director I remember hearing about that was making films from his little ranch, yeah, and you're getting a vision that's not relying on gatekeepers. Like let's say you've been around forever, you could be the gatekeeper that says, No, you can't do it that way, and there's some little cowboy is doing an like an incredible thing that no one's thought of before.
Hugh Freytag: 7:28
Yes. Okay. That's no that's quite true. It depends uh whether you become an auteur or not, because uh there's too many people these days that seem to dip their finger in into everything and have their say, uh, even on the set uh with other people. Um I shot a short film which is doing the rounds uh in America and Canada at the moment, and uh I think it's gonna be in the uh film festival here. The uh focus puller or camera assistant had to go off and do a a job that they'd originally been planned to do. So I had uh someone else turn up and I seem to knew in the past and uh basically in the first few hours I was told I was wasn't told but someone was deciding that it should be lipped this way. And being in director of photography, it's sort of it can be a bit of a an issue when you're trying to control the image for a producer and director with lighting and gripping and production design, all that sort of stuff.
Paul Atkins: 8:40
So yes, um that still happens, JPES. So the f this is a focus puller who just I mean by definition, they're making sure what's the camera's in focus, the distance between the camera and the subject is maintained.
Hugh Freytag: 8:53
But they're mostly uh camera assistant first camera assistant, whatever they're called, American style. Yep. They're very important because they also control camera. Uh whereas before when uh shooting on film um you had rather strict guidelines, you know. Hit your mark. Yeah, all that sort of stuff. Yeah. But also how the uh film was controlled. Now things can be changed instantaneously with cameras, lighting, and all sorts of stuff. And uh what size images, you know, what K, 4K, 6K, 8K.
Paul Atkins: 9:28
So it's that's resolution, thousands of pixels, yeah. High or cross or uh I don't know. And well nowadays it fills out quite a large space. Sorry, it's that's thousands of pixels by K. It's not it's the X by Y, it's not actually just one dimension. I'm thinking scanners, which are often talked at because they're linear. Yeah. Um so yeah, okay. So 8K is like I mean, television back in the day was not even 720p. Right. Well, HD wasn't even one K.
Hugh Freytag: 9:59
We're still seeing stuff in HD on TV. Right. So all the transmission is off. Yeah.
Paul Atkins: 10:04
So and so HD is what below 720, is it? No, it's above. Above, okay.
Hugh Freytag: 10:10
And so what uh uh uh 8k would allow you to crop, or what's that that's right in it just allows you to uh all the producer, director, or the person who's editing to uh do all sorts of really strange things, which we've never been able to before.
Paul Atkins: 10:28
Is that a good freeing thing, or um I mean I'm not trying to push you into being like grumpy about this stuff at all, but I'm just I'm just curious about no, I'm not sessing you are, but I'm just curious about how it's affected the industry and is it better for it and or is it just change or I find a lot of uh television and uh drama really boring and very uh not moronic.
Hugh Freytag: 10:55
No, well that that as well.
Paul Atkins: 10:58
Um but uh so so you this is an interesting question because I like I like everyone, I'm not like a lot of people, television is like the drug. Yeah, and it and it has been for mediocre is the word I mean. Mediocre. But I I I can imagine sitting in front of something that frustrates me because I know too much about how the process is made. And I find that about steel photography sometimes, you know, you sit there and mediocre is a great word. Yes. Uh is it because does it mean is um these things get to television because the story's good? Like what what make if it's mediocre cinematography and lighting, how does it get there? Okay. Or is there nepotism we're talking about, or whatever that expressed thing is? You're going into something completely yeah. Well, let's should we leave that side of it light? Let's just leave that. Should we talk about photography as well? Yes. I was just I was just interested in the frustration you have with seeing work on a screen than you're used to, you know how it's made. And I I'm I'm curious about cinema because we're coming from the stills world and I think in commercial studios, there was the whole attitude about the photographer is, for want of a much better word, a lone wolf, right? They work both, but in the cinema world, everybody works together. And a mate of mine who does a lot of stills work with a little bit of um motion says he would rather employ someone who's been through cinema training because they're not precious about what they're doing. They understand that in the end, one name's gonna make it on the screen where that where it can be read, but the world kind of well, not the world, the back end knows that there's a lot of people that's come together to make it. Yes. And I found that your situation's really interesting because you work in that world of collaboration and cinematography, and you have the patience and the can't kindness and the sharingness to make that work. But you also but you're also a real loner with your photography. Uh you go out and you shoot. I mean, every week you would have a roll of black and white film going through a medium format camera. Yes. And you would process it yourself and you would scan it and you would publish it to Instagram mostly. And it is a wonderful feed to watch. It's a view that and and it's uh cinematic, it's it's um uh curious, it's street, it's portraiture. Um, what drives all of that and how do you reconcile the collaboration versus the soul owners?
Hugh Freytag: 13:24
Because everything comes from one thing yourself, everything. Right. Because I have control over everything. So yes.
Paul Atkins: 13:33
So you're responding to that because you want control and you're doing this image.
Hugh Freytag: 13:37
It's not a matter of want. It's just that it feels correct. That's why I shoot on film. I don't shoot digital unless it's uh cinema. Um, my phone. That's different. I use an app on that, which is uh you can't get any more black and white.
Paul Atkins: 13:53
And so you're hoping that they don't it's still serviceable with a new model or phone if you want to replace it.
Hugh Freytag: 13:59
I've changed phones last couple of times and it's still there, but I'm thinking the next one I'm gonna buy, hopefully uh uh that app will be around because you can't get it and it's uh it was a very good one.
Paul Atkins: 14:14
The the new iPhone features that you that they've just released of the latest model talking about raw formats and does that interest you? No. You don't think you'd be able to get what you want through that system potentially?
Hugh Freytag: 14:27
Um I'm happy with the uh app I've got on my phone, um, just as it is. Um it shoots in TIFF. So it's a TIFF file every time. A true TIFF file, apparently.
Paul Atkins: 14:40
I'm happy with that. That's amazing. So that to you feels like an extension of film? In a way, even though it's digital. It's a it's a limited space that you can understand and you kind of know when you press what's gonna happen. Yes. And uh there's no no cropping at all.
Hugh Freytag: 14:56
Yeah. Something I've never done in my life, uh still photography. Um is cropping.
Paul Atkins: 15:03
Outside of the camera. Yes. Inside your cropping all the time. Yeah, deciding where you're pointing.
Hugh Freytag: 15:09
Well that's how you how you just decide how to take a photograph then.
Paul Atkins: 15:12
Yeah.
Hugh Freytag: 15:12
Or how the photograph eventuates, should I say. But yes, uh, so as you're probably aware, uh most of my black and white photography and some colour is always full frame. Uh and I usually have the rebate around it just to make uh makes me feel better too, that that there is no cropping. Because what are you looking at if you have to crop? I'd rather look at what I'm looking at and take a photograph rather than have to think about oh I can look better if I crop it later. Which is quite justifiable, but uh not for me.
Paul Atkins: 15:51
Do you revisit old work? Because sometimes that's what happens when you revisit, you go, oh, now I'm thinking this way a bit more. What if I just Yes I do.
Hugh Freytag: 15:59
And and uh places to take photographs as well, and people um over the years I revisit and uh it's just a simple it's what happens is what happens. You can't uh you should never try and push it's the light, the lighting is correct, not correct at the moment. So I'll come back and I do that a lot. And the lighting's good, but not for what I want, and I come back another time. Or I see this place a different time of the year, and the lighting is not good again.
Paul Atkins: 16:31
That's like a landscape photographer's thinking, you know. You know, you've you hear about people going out and waiting for weeks for it. Yes, that's correct. But you're just returned, but then you're not doing a lot of landscapes. I mean, there are landscapes amongst your work. Yes, well, it depends what you call on landscape.
Hugh Freytag: 16:47
Um really silly, isn't it, to keep them defined. Uh um because I like uh constructed images full of lines. Um and uh I suppose the uh what's things should I say about them? I just see look, I just see things and I put a frame around them.
Paul Atkins: 17:06
That's all I can say. So they they these things they stick like in the morning you get up, let's say it's a day that you've got to yourself and to wander. Yeah. Um are you thinking through the night or whatever about a shot you've taken that you want to go back and resheet, or are you just uh yes, I just buying your luck.
Hugh Freytag: 17:22
I do that. Um, especially if I'm thinking about going to an area that's uh and I say, okay, the sun's not gonna be out, so I won't take that sort of photograph. But the sun will be out and check out with the with bomb site. Oh Bureau of Meteorology, yes, correct. And uh just think, okay, I'm gonna shoot this in uh HP five, or I'll uh I've been shooting a fair bit of uh infra infrared lately because for some reason I like because I never used to like it, but I seem to like the contrast now or the effect of it. And I just use an i an old uh Hasselblad SWC, which is basically a port and shoot camera.
Paul Atkins: 18:04
Super SWC sounds super wide, yes, super wide.
Hugh Freytag: 18:07
Yes, very nice camera.
Paul Atkins: 18:09
Yeah, so you're you're looking through a viewfinder on top of it that simulates what the camera's seeing, and you're not looking through the the reflex like a hassleblad we're used to talking about. Yes. Um and it's a tiny compact thing, and you kind of work your distance. Like I've you photographed me a couple of times with it, and yes, it's an interesting process. You you're right about a point two, but when you're close to someone, you want to be measuring. Oh, yes, that's true because uh in low light.
Hugh Freytag: 18:34
Yes, because uh yes, I did a portrait of you a few years back and I had to was it 12 inches and uh crystal clean images, great lenses on the camera. And I measured that out because uh, you know, when you get down to uh even though it's very wide, uh depth of field is strong, but as you go closer, obviously, less a lot less uh depth of field. So uh yes, measurement.
Paul Atkins: 19:06
So with with that process, uh is it a slow like a lot of people say they use film because it slows them down. Um but it's not you. No. You're not doing it for that reason, you're doing it for the tight series of options.
Hugh Freytag: 19:19
I w I wander around or I meet people I know. I took some photographs of uh some people at uh a place I go to often. Um Picture Higher. Oh yeah, which is a one straight back. Yes, just around the corner. Um and uh I know some people that work there and people that pop up, take photographs of people. Most of them seem to be quite happy with me doing it.
Paul Atkins: 19:44
And uh, you know, I like taking photographs of people. And you do a bit of selfie stuff too, like you photograph yourself, which is not a lot of photographers are comfortable doing. Yes, it's true. Are you comfortable doing it or is that oh it's okay, you know. I like the shadow as well. You got the best sunglasses in the world. Yes, something like that. So that you like you're seeing your shadow in places. So I mean, people have said uh probably Sontag or someone that the photographer photograph is a conversation between the camera operator, the photographer, and the subject. Yes. And so you in some ways are embodying and practicing that. Yes. These people know you, they talk with you, you have coffee with them, or is it just grabbing them and shooting them?
Hugh Freytag: 20:22
Well, some people I know, other people just know I've worked on film sets with and uh and some of them just automatically go into hose for me. Uh and uh other people don't. So you have to get known a bit and just take photographs. Yeah. There's no precursor to anything. It's just like I see them go, oh, time to take a photo, and I start doing it. Occasionally someone gets a bit uh annoyed, affronted, but that doesn't happen very often. Yeah, yeah.
Paul Atkins: 20:56
With um uh, you know, that whole film set stuff I mentioned that you you have people shooting stills, but then there's often people like um uh in my mind, uh Jeff Bridges, who's who's running around with the wide luxe. Um, in fact, I think hasn't he invested some money to re-engineer or something else? Yes, they are gonna be re-engineered.
Hugh Freytag: 21:14
Yes. Nice cameras. I mean, I should have bought one a couple of years ago for less than a thousand dollars. Now they're gonna be a huge amount of money. Even there's a 120 format large, larger format wide lux for sale and five or six thousand now.
Paul Atkins: 21:32
Wow.
Hugh Freytag: 21:32
And when I played with one four years ago, it was worth about six hundred dollars. That's crazy.
Paul Atkins: 21:38
Yeah. Well, that's happens, and we're seeing that we talked a little earlier about some lenses where someone on Instagram has done something that's gone viral and suddenly we can't buy whatever it is. Yes, it happened with the uh camera I use a lot.
Hugh Freytag: 21:54
Uh X-Pan. Oh, Hasbot X Pan. Or the Fuji uh TX1.
Paul Atkins: 22:00
T X1, that's what it is. Yeah. Same camera. Now they're fairly complicated on the inside, aren't they? Yes, they are. So what happens when they go wrong?
Hugh Freytag: 22:08
Uh they do go on go wrong. Uh electronics and uh hard because uh the electronics are hard to repair. They go wrong. And so people have a camera which's not really worth much anymore. But uh very expensive. Uh I'm lucky I got mine when there weren't much money at all. Yeah.
Paul Atkins: 22:31
Yeah. I actually lately have been feeling a bit like a prepper because you see these things. Like my Mummy S7 is my one of my favourite things in the world, but I'm a bit worried about using it because I don't want to wear it out. Yes. Because one day it's the electronics are gonna just not come on. That's right. And um, but my contacts, 1936 contacts, I've had serviced, and we both know Lars Carlson, a a local friend who will keep Hasselblads going. Yeah. And other cameras. And other cameras, yeah. But getting his attention and there's not enough of him around. Yes. It's an interesting conundrum, isn't it?
Hugh Freytag: 23:06
Yes.
Paul Atkins: 23:07
It is.
Hugh Freytag: 23:08
Yeah. But uh getting back to so taking photographs, it's very you know, obviously it's very personal and I don't need to answer to anyone. Working in film, you have to answer to people. And you've got so many opinions flying around, which is great. And uh people know they respect you or they don't respect you, it doesn't really matter. But when you walk out with a camera and you're completely by yourself, I don't go on many photo photo walks. Uh in fact I don't think the last one I can't remember the last one I did. No, I can't. Could it have been the the quarantine station? No, no, I never went to that one. Okay. But no. Um because I just like walking around or driving and then walking and just exploring, you know, some of the places I've been to before at different times of the day. And I just look at things. You just look at things. You look at shadow. You look at form. That's why most of my photographs are very uh I suppose you'd say composition is uh strong. Even though it's not wrong. Uh not right, sorry.
Paul Atkins: 24:32
Well, by whatever rules that means, yeah. Because you know the rules and when you know them you should Yes, you exploit them. Yes, that's right. That's a word. And and all the and tell me the r radius of with which these photographs, like if you look at your Instagram and scroll and you can scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll. Um so what I'm saying is a lot of pictures there. What radius were they taken in? All within, you know, 10 kilometers of your home or uh depends where I am. Yeah, but you're not you're not like uh we don't see you in another country or another state often. You know, you're working around here.
Hugh Freytag: 25:06
Uh a few years ago I was working doing things in New South Wales, working on a documentary about Robert Mc Robert McFarlane. Oh, I did want to talk about that, yeah. Yes. Uh and uh I took a lot of photographs there of um people that were in the uh the film. Um uh mine uh Mirror made a little documentary on Robert McFarlane. Really nice documentary.
Paul Atkins: 25:33
Yeah, and he's an interesting character, Robert, because he's he's a a photojournalist operating in, you know, early Bob Hawk era. Yes. That's where I think where he did his most and Charlie Perkins and and his stuff is incredibly strong. Yes. And he kind of retired here to South Australia and had a quite a long time till we lost him. Yeah. But he was about and involved and um and I know that you gave so much of your time and materials and energy to because like a lot of us, he wasn't overly organized and needed help sorting his collection out.
Hugh Freytag: 26:08
Yes, I did a lot of rescans of his work and uh um helped uh Mira, um, who, as I said again, she uh did a brilliant job on the whole film. Yeah, it's a great film. I think he had a pretty good life, but uh it uh sort of went downhill uh as he got older uh health issues and stuff. I mean he was a brilliant writer. He was still writing for uh papers in Sydney and stuff up to a few years ago.
Paul Atkins: 26:39
Uh great memory. Yes. You could show him a picture and he'd tell you what his camera settings were. Yes. Thirty years ago. Well not even that, actually. A lot longer than that. Yeah, but before two. You know, some some of us have no memory of yesterday, but have a memory of 20 years ago. He maintained it all the way through.
Hugh Freytag: 26:57
Yes, I respected him a lot. I used to go to his house and through stuff and look at his cameras and chat with him. Yes. That was uh unfortunately uh died a couple of years ago. So yeah.
Paul Atkins: 27:09
I found it inspirational that even though he lost his mobility, he was in a scooter, yeah, he still turned up to everything. And yes, it must have frustrated the hell out of him, but he always had a camera, always shooting. Yeah, and if he gave him the microphone, it'd be hard to get it back off of him. Yes, it's true. But it was fascinating every time it was, you know, there was more to be learned. Yes. So Rack On Tur as well, which I suppose were the writer.
Hugh Freytag: 27:32
Yes, well, a brilliant mind he he had, yes. Just wish I'd known him beforehand uh when he was younger as well. But you know, we do one thing, we all page.
Paul Atkins: 27:42
Yes. And avoid that. And avoid that. Well, actually you can, but it's not a good thing. Yes. Well, you know, you don't want to be gone early just because of your beautiful face, you know? Oh that, yes, no.
Hugh Freytag: 27:52
The Princess Grace thing. Yes, that's true. Yeah. No, you need to uh stick around a bit longer and find out more about what life is about, whether it's good or bad. How it turns out. Yes.
Paul Atkins: 28:02
Um, so so would you have liked to have been a photojournalist? Would that was that something that was inside you? No.
Hugh Freytag: 28:08
Not at all. Um in the 90s I did some TV shooting uh beta cam and and that sort of thing, SBS and ABC and stuff, but didn't really stick with me. I stuck to uh short films and uh and always shot uh film, mostly colour then. But it's only been the last 15 years that I've been doing black and white back again. That's all I do because I have complete control over it developing and and scanning. I might have a dark room, but I'm not going to do that just yet.
Paul Atkins: 28:43
Would you so you would go to optical printing if you Yes, I would. But I'm just not set up to that. Yeah, it's a it is a big shift. Yeah. And it's not just that, it's the the spotting of the prints. Yeah. I don't know how you feel about that. Some people are fearless about it. And people saying, oh, it's just um that that's patina. But I can't handle that from having a lab where you gotta dust spot everything. So that next step is it's a big step.
Hugh Freytag: 29:08
When I went to art school, that was the first thing in the photography thing that the first person was uh Fiona Hall. Oh, yeah. Actually, she was one of my lecturers and uh doing the whole spotting and I got stuck into it big time. The techniques, I still got all that stuff, but I just don't do it.
Paul Atkins: 29:26
Yeah, yeah. We had five people here just doing that at the lab. It was insane. Just go back to the you know uh the art school days. Did you go through with a cohort? I I think you did, didn't you? With your other classmates who've done interesting things?
Hugh Freytag: 29:42
Yes, there are um when was I there, 84, I think. It was my first year. Uh yes, uh, as a famous painter here in in Adelaide, Diane Gall. Um she's become quite uh big in in uh in her field, and there's a few people. Somewhere just after me, I was too much of a uh party person. Really? In those days. I I got to art school, I was seventeen. Right. And uh you know, in the early eighties it's you're still living seventies dream. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And just before uh uh just as uh AIDS popped in, we changed everything dramatically. So a lot of drinking and partying and carrying on um in the eighties a lot. A lot of pub bands and oh yeah. Yeah. Yes, and a lot of parties. Everyone had parties at their houses, everyone all the time. I don't really see that anymore.
Paul Atkins: 30:41
Yeah. Well, there's a lot has changed in the last five years. You know, COVID matched a lot of stuff up, but also I think the internet and people gathering and getting some of that socializing done that way. Yes, they there's a little less of it happening. But my my um 20 we seem to be 21-year-old daughter, she's always at parties. So there are groups that are still doing that sort of a thing. Yeah, this is good to know. It hasn't given up.
Hugh Freytag: 31:05
Maybe for you, Hugh. My my daughter, she's 23. She doesn't seem to she goes out, but uh she doesn't seem to do much parting. Yeah. Parties and stuff.
Paul Atkins: 31:15
Yeah, well, I think they also age out of it a bit, and Josephine has now got a a partner, and so they go a few things together, but they're satisfied by themselves. Whereas not long before that, it was like, Where is she tonight? What's she doing? With all the trust in the world you have with your smartly brought up ch child, you're still not sure whether Yes. So yes, uh um so art school was uh You majored in photography or was what how did that work? Was it just called art school or was it It was at um Underdale?
Hugh Freytag: 31:46
Underdale, which was a great place uh which has got torn down to build housing. Uh built in the early 70s in a brutalist way, and uh that's when the art school sort of became big and now it doesn't exist anymore.
Paul Atkins: 32:05
Um I mean, even the classes themselves have morphed into one-year attempts at giving what you had three or four years to four-year degree code. Four years to do, they're jamming into one. Not that I ever did. Four years because uh partying was too much and other things. So what where did you go from like from there? What was your the next what got you out of besides partying? I don't think partying normally gets you out of school. What got you out of uni? What no is it work or no?
Hugh Freytag: 32:35
Well, I traveled, I went and lived in England for a while. And then uh I came back and a few friends, Durand Grieg, who's uh an animator, very good one, uh model, mostly. Uh I got back here in ninety-one, ninety two from traveling. Um we started a little studio and did model animation.
Paul Atkins: 33:00
Oh wow.
Hugh Freytag: 33:01
So that's and uh then I started working on short films as focus puller.
Paul Atkins: 33:07
So where did photography start in all of this? Oh, at art school. At art schools. And so someone handed you a spot matically.
Hugh Freytag: 33:14
So I had my father's spotmatic, my father as avid photographer, because it was part of his work as a geologist. So he had to use cameras all the time. Geologist here in South Australia? Yes, he's still alive, getting on a bit. And he did a lot of uh geology here in in Central Australia and elsewhere. Traveled into Tim or PG. We lived in PG when I was a kid. Yeah. Uh he was doing his job there. So uh and my grandfather was a photographer, and my great aunt.
Paul Atkins: 33:46
Okay, so it wasn't art school. It was it was you you you had it in your crib somehow.
Hugh Freytag: 33:52
I think so. Yeah. Yes. Yes, I still go through my uh great aunt.
Paul Atkins: 33:57
She had a a uh box brownie, one of the early ones, the 120, I think. Yeah, the 620, you have to na you have to shave the ends of the spools off. You can still load them. Yes. Have you what wanted to pick that up?
Hugh Freytag: 34:11
I use uh I don't use uh 621s because you can still buy box brownie 120s for $20 and do the same thing.
Paul Atkins: 34:22
So I've done that. Um that's the ultimate in simplicity. You've got two speeds. Yes, and that's it. Yes, and some of them have uh aperture. Yeah, right.
Hugh Freytag: 34:31
Uh the uh is it uh sunny and not sunny. Um most of those ones are F11, right? 16 and 22. Right. Those three apertures you have. That's that's really quite slow, isn't it? If you think about it. And considering the the films were no more than 12 or 25 ISA.
Paul Atkins: 34:51
Yeah, Max, so you had really bright sunlight to get anything. That's right. Yeah, that's really interesting, isn't it? Yes, it was a long time ago. Yeah, but it's interesting that's such great like you look at Samuel Sweet's photography and the early state photography that was done probably even slower again, 810, uh 8 ISO, who ISO, and like they were getting stuff, the resolution seeing you know, ropes on ships, uh a kilometer or crazy stuff like that. So with with you medium format and a bit of 35 mil, but the 35 mil you're using is XPan, which is actually really a 6'9, isn't it, lengthwise? It is about it as a medium format, yeah, because uh there's still 35 mil. What is medium format to you then? Why why um it's obviously not 35 mil, right? You're not a 35mm guy, you're a medium format guy.
Hugh Freytag: 35:46
I I love shooting on 35mm because just anything. Right. Really. If I had uh access to an eight by ten, I'd I'd shoot eight by ten. Yep. Uh I'd try and shoot five by four, but I haven't really done much of that lately at all. Me in format is uh a quality and it's uh easy to deal with. I don't know, it's just something I've always used.
Paul Atkins: 36:09
It really is easy, isn't it? It is easy. And um we were talking earlier about limits you you know, a role usually is what depending on the format. 12 shots or uh uh six or eight or six or eight or ten, depending on what kind of cameras. Five if you're six four five, sixteen. That's correct. I don't like six four five. I don't know, it's never stuck for me, and yet the contacts uh uh six four five is what a lot of professional photographers still use in film adore, but imagine keeping one of those running like yes, unfortunately uh things break.
Hugh Freytag: 36:48
Yeah, it's like the uh the X-Pan because uh people talk about oh getting things fixed and made for them. They were made with uh technology which uh is illegal now. A lot of the uh soldering was done with different chemicals and all sorts of stuff.
Paul Atkins: 37:05
Oh right. So yes. So even fixing that stuff is yeah, yes. You can't do I didn't realise that. That's fascinating. Do you ever think I'm out here doing this walking and shooting? Yes. Where's where are you going with it? Do you think about what you just do it? You do it. It's uh it's a habit now. Yes. Do you not have any secret dreams that you don't want to talk about or with your work? No, I'm quite happy to do what I do.
Hugh Freytag: 37:32
I just I mean I can see some photographs now, but I won't take them because we're busy. Yeah. But no, I uh I have nothing like that. I mean I don't use light meters or anything anymore because uh I look at things all the time. I haven't used uh I shot a feature in 2015, 2016 and I was still using light meters then for a digital film. So interesting. Because it was just a habit habit. Yeah.
Paul Atkins: 38:05
And it was accurate, but uh now I don't do that. Is with digital do you find that you're seeing the results so you're making the adjustment or you're hitting it just through understanding?
Hugh Freytag: 38:16
Well, because it's all monitors now and everyone relies on monitors. So that's why I I was for ten years I was shooting features still using a light meter. Yeah. Even though we're using digital cameras.
Paul Atkins: 38:27
Yeah.
Hugh Freytag: 38:28
Because I just knew what results would be like. Yeah, yeah. Exposure-wise. Yeah. Yeah. And uh the only camera I use that has a light meter is the X-Pan because I just usually put that on auto. Yeah. And just press a button.
Paul Atkins: 38:43
And now auto for it, uh, you're it's following the shutter speed with the expo with the aperture. Yes, that's right. It's not it's aperture priority, not shutter priority. Yeah.
Hugh Freytag: 38:51
Yeah. Yes. I think it does both, but yeah.
Paul Atkins: 38:55
Yeah, you don't struggle with stopping motion or anything like that. It's not your challenge at all.
Hugh Freytag: 39:01
No. No. But uh, yeah, so I haven't used I've got I collect the light meters because I like them, but so I don't use them. Even in indoors now, I'm I'm getting used to it because you just look at things and running around with a light matter, it's always intrusive, especially with people. So it's better just not to use them.
Paul Atkins: 39:18
Yeah, if you can get on top of a yeah. And and I gather that you never struggle with exposure issues. You never go, oops, overexposed, but you can overexpose without any issues. So when in doubt. And also you have you when I control the uh processing as well. Yeah. So yes, it makes things a lot a lot easier. Yeah. That relationship you have with your tanks and your chemistry, that must be must feel great. Yes.
Hugh Freytag: 39:42
Knowing that again, it goes back to being control of everything.
Paul Atkins: 39:47
Yeah.
Hugh Freytag: 39:47
I don't want to be, you know, I'm not a micromanager person, but when it comes to my images, it's it's very personal. Yeah.
Paul Atkins: 39:55
Do you struggle with um dumb insider question, but do you struggle with the 20 degrees coming out the tap? Oh. This is the South Australian problem for most. I'm sure it's a Darwin problem. I would love I'd love to have a uh uh chill.
Hugh Freytag: 40:12
We all would like one of those. No, I'm I'm fine. In uh winter I warm up the uh solution and in summer I cool it down. Yeah. You've worked out a way around that. Yes. It's just just uh ice cream containers and certain um mixing vessels and plastic. Um and ice. Yes, and uh well no, cold water usually. Cold water. Uh certain plastics uh do heat differently, so you just know which one is which.
Paul Atkins: 40:46
The the different plastic you Yeah, so I'm I'm just I'm still trying to f find out why are you doing this. Like uh not I don't want to be rude, but it's a really interesting thing. And I'm into pu I like puzzles and I like to understand your process and it's it's natural.
Hugh Freytag: 41:03
Yeah. The chemicals I can get are very easy. Yeah. And I used to do it in the nineties and and in the eighties a fair bit because I had a dark room uh in my studio uh that I had in in uh the city here. Hacky doam studio. Oh as it was called. Yeah. Yes.
Paul Atkins: 41:22
Just around the corner from where you used to have uh just down the Perry Street a bit. That's right. Yeah, we were in T sixty two opposite the Tiverley Hotel. Yes, I was just uh Gaul Place. Yeah.
Hugh Freytag: 41:34
So not not far away, upstairs.
Paul Atkins: 41:36
Yeah.
Hugh Freytag: 41:37
Doing little animated films with Durand.
Paul Atkins: 41:40
That's that's just fantastic. Um But he um But no, I'm I'm not not just a why you process, but the the desire to go out and photograph and and the desire for Instagram to be where things turn out, where we get to see the work.
Hugh Freytag: 41:53
Oh well, I'll do Facebook. Um I'd like to uh have more prowess with my computing skills to do other things, but uh I'm trying to do that now. Uh unfortunately I ended up in hospital uh six months ago and uh life decisions changed somewhat not the photography or the filmmaking, but other things. Um I had a major operation six months ago, pretty much to the week, yeah, which was uh it changes you, and that was uh heart bypass. Um one of those things that I had to have done very quickly, or else uh I wouldn't be here. That's great. It's great you had it. Yes, I was no, I I I think it's great too.
Paul Atkins: 42:36
Could you imagine being in a place where we don't have this kind of health care?
Hugh Freytag: 42:40
Yes, I think other countries and and other parts of the world don't have this because um yes, I was tested and then the cardiologist that was testing me said, You're not leaving hospital. Wow. And that was that. And so within eight days I was have my uh chest ripped open. So yes. So that changes your attitude on things a fair bit.
Paul Atkins: 43:07
Is is it heightened your taste senses and and it's are you just f you're feeling everything's a bit brighter and you you want it or what's the what's the what's what's going on?
Hugh Freytag: 43:17
No, no, it's just a lot of things uh less important and a lot of things are more important. Right. So yes, it it changes backwards and forwards. It's a what are you doing with your time thing, is it? Yes. I mean I'm still trying to get coming over the uh process of having your chest ripped open and then glued back together. It's still six months, any more time. But I'm still doing the most important thing that I can do because I can't really work on films too much unless I shoot. I can't do uh gripping or uh lighting or heavy stuff.
Paul Atkins: 43:53
So so just can you tell us what gripping is because Oh dollies and and uh so tripods and rails and yeah, yeah. Yes, I had a lot of that sort of stuff, but I was slowly getting rid of it because I'd rather just shoot when I can. So when someone if someone wanted you for a project, you would come with your own uh dolly system in the past. Yes. Um and that would mean that you are a more attractive cinematographer because you've got the gear you understand with you. Uh yes and no. But I understand the process cinematography through gripping as well. Yeah, so if you can't do the lighting, the heavy, the heavy lifting, you've got to refocus on for one but for handling it.
Hugh Freytag: 44:34
I sort of did my own my own lighting and stuff, but so yes, that sort of changes everything in that respect, with especially with filmmaking, because also filmmaking's changing the process lighting and LED lighting has completely changed things.
Paul Atkins: 44:49
How are you finding the quality of light that LED puts out? Is that is that a challenge? I just noticed something up there.
Hugh Freytag: 44:57
My my scrim? Yes. We use that packing. Yeah.
Paul Atkins: 45:01
Um lighting. Yeah, it's um it's brilliant. Uh what is it called? Uh it's it's biodegradable. Yes. You can eat it, apparently. Yeah.
Hugh Freytag: 45:10
It's great stuff. It's just anything that you buy, it's uses packing.
Paul Atkins: 45:14
And uh I've always been blown away when you look at back in the old days, it would burn. Well, that's right, because the but the they put out so much heat, those arcolites or whatever. Uh we've struggled a lot, and I know you're you're you're shooting colour as as well for your cinema work. We've struggled a lot with stills, and particularly when you see people photographing under current modern LED lights. Now, I'm sure it's cheap LED lighting, the stuff you buy that bands light a stage up. I mean, it just sucks the colour, not because it's putting purple light out or something, or whatever the colour might be, but it just can't render every colour in the spectrum like incandescent light can do, or even later generation fluoros. Um, is that a struggle in the in the in the movie world?
Hugh Freytag: 45:58
Well, there was problems when the LEDs first coming out uh with the green bias and camera with LEDs because they're cheap. I don't care anymore in grating. And also in the camera, you can get rid of various biases, magenta or or green.
Paul Atkins: 46:17
Because those raw formats that you're shooting is so broad. Yeah, everything's in log. Yep or raw or log. Yeah.
Hugh Freytag: 46:24
Uh so there's so much brilliant um ability to uh do color work with it. Yeah. So yes. So that and also your final grading, uh, you can do so much. You can you can select certain sections and change the color temperature of things all over an image as goes on. Yeah.
Paul Atkins: 46:48
So You said then the beginning that you know getting into well, I can't quite remember where it came from, but you said that's where the action is at the moment. Or well, that's what I took from your conversation. That's where the action is in the grading, the post. Does that mean you have to be happy to sit in front of a screen in a dark room? Well, yes, and no.
Hugh Freytag: 47:06
That's not quite okay. Let's say uh not quite true. I mean, it is true in a way, but it's because I've been doing the process of shooting about blocking actors and uh lighting for them and all that. I've been blocking setting up a scene, isn't it? For you shoot. Yes. Um I've been doing that. So I don't really need to think about that too much. So yes, so what you're saying is a bit incorrect. I shouldn't jump to the gun. That's right. But grading is so important now because uh whatever you do I shot a short film and unfortunately I was in hospital having my chest ripped open. You couldn't quite finish the job. Yes. Not even from your hospital bed. So the producers got a uh grader from even though I I was got wanted to use a grader here in Adelaide uh because I was incapacitated. They use a an online grader from uh California. Which was okay. But the thing is there's still things that issue me about uh I issue about some of the grading on the short film. You know, if I'd have this problem and I would have been with the grader, could have been done within a few days. Yeah. And uh and uh everyone would have been happy, but that was just something that happened.
Paul Atkins: 48:32
Yeah, I know. Uh do you ever find yourself looking back at the work you've done and wanting to have another go? Because it gets out of your hand with cinema work. It's someone else's. Yes.
Hugh Freytag: 48:42
Um it is someone else's um no. Yeah. No. You say goodbye, shut the door. Yes, it's like photography. Yeah. I go through my photographs and go, oh, I scan this. There's a reason I didn't ever process it or continue is because the framing is not correct or the horizon's not level. You know, I just leave them. Yeah. Uh and I think why happens if I crop this image. No, I'm not gonna do that. Yeah. So I just don't do that. Yeah. Because it's what I see, even though I use cameras which don't have uh rollerflex or uh X-Pan, you know, they don't have because they're all um cameras which uh aren't uh looking through the lens. Yeah, it's not the SLR single X or reflex. So uh but I'm used to those cameras.
Paul Atkins: 49:33
You know them, they are a part of you. Yeah. Yeah. That's super interesting. So I didn't realise because I knew you'd had some health issues a few years ago that you kind of overcome, and I and I did hear that you had some serious health issues. I didn't realize only six months ago.
Hugh Freytag: 49:49
Yes.
Paul Atkins: 49:49
Um that's wild. And it's and you know, you're looking at your time going, what am I doing with my time? And we're sitting here together and you've taken an hour to sit with me and talk about this stuff. I'm very, very grateful. I feel like that out of all the choices you could have done today, maybe there was another one. Yeah. I mean the weather.
Hugh Freytag: 50:06
Uh the weather is brilliant. Um, I would be out using the uh a camera because I had nothing else on today. So I would have been taking photographs infrared. Infrared. The drama of infrared.
Paul Atkins: 50:20
Um last question, because we're on the hour. The the drama of of infrared, is it because are you feeling that represents the world better now? Because, you know, you've had you've had trauma. The world's in a bit of a mess at the moment, and I certainly feel it. Well, I was at the I was at the thing Victoria Square supporting immigration and First Nations people. Yeah. And then there was three times the amount of people marching for the opposite. Yes. And I just was crushed at the size when I saw the news that afternoon, evening, I was crushed at the size of people doing dopey stuff. And for me, looking at your work, seeing those heavier skies, because that's what infrared does, and that contrast and that it's it's tension in it.
Hugh Freytag: 51:08
Yes. I mean, I could uh I could get something similar just using uh heavy red filters, like a uh uh Kodak 25 or 29 filter. But it's just something I don't know, because I look at something saying, okay, this tree is gonna be white, but how white is it gonna be? That sky is gonna be very dark or black. That shadow is gonna be heavy. I mean, I just I'm just interested to find out what it looks like.
Paul Atkins: 51:41
Are you just learning that now, or is it because the infrared, we don't see it, so it's a bit more of a lucky dip as to what you're getting, but you are still by using it, you are learning what's gonna happen. Yes. Um, so you do you feel that arc of learning that and that's exciting you?
Hugh Freytag: 51:57
Yes, I'd like I would like to have used uh colour infrared, but uh that's virtually impossible. Yeah. Uh I know people are selling uh 35mm rolls of uh infrared for five, seven hundred dollars a roll. Um stuff that's 25 years old.
Paul Atkins: 52:14
So whether it works is a different matter. I remember it came coming out and the stuff in botanic gardens and wild results, which whatever you think. I've I found it too removed from reality, whereas I find the similarity of black and white infrared with heavy red uh filtering type effect. I think I really like that. And and I've been using a lot of UV photography because of wet plate lately. Yes. And I'm getting used to my eyes seeing what's going to happen with that, which it's it's fascinating. Well you yeah, you're doing the same sort of thing.
Hugh Freytag: 52:44
You know, you as long as you're always being uh inquisitive about what you're looking at, yeah. Whether it's all the different ways how the shade the shade is or the shadow falls or the highlight or the of the tree as we're looking through the trees here, hitting the uh leaves and the car, how the highlight hitting that you just look at it. I've always done it. And and it just helps you understand about looking at things. And you don't look for a photograph to try and make one, it just happens. Yeah. And you think, I'm gonna put a frame around that, and that's it. That's what it's all about. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's all I've ever done. Um and it's simple. Similar work, it's different. I love doing it, but uh it's pretty difficult these days, especially uh at my age. Um so many young people have access to computers and and camera technology. There's people in that uh 21, 22 are trying to do big things, which is fine. I came from a world where most people it sort of had to do a bit of an apprenticeship with film, working in camera department or lighting or gripping. You know, yeah, I've got to do four or five years of that before I can push a dolly and maybe just call myself a best boy in lighting after two or three years or five years or something. That doesn't happen anymore. Yeah. So people just grab stuff and you know instantly shooting stuff straight away because it's easy.
Paul Atkins: 54:26
It's an interesting structure, structural change. And who knows where it's where it goes. I mean, when it when it's a great film, you know, you you know you hear it analyzed by us by someone like Roger Deacons, a film, and you and you know that they've actually fallen, luckily, into that same groove that someone like Roger would have known from their training and skill. Yes. And so someone's found that same groove that works. Yes.
Hugh Freytag: 54:49
I I like watching um his first film that he shot other than documentaries was the uh Sid and Nancy. Oh yeah. Um and he wasn't very old when he did that. And that was the first film he shot, I think, in England about um Sid and Nancy. Yes, I I look at that because that's just raw and uh now he's turned into uh Is he an auteur? He has pretty much not always, but he has a fair bit of control over what he does. I mean it depends who he works for, but that's the thing is if you shoot or edit, you've always got someone else looking over your shoulder. It's happened to me a couple of times where the director, producer said, do what you like on to on features. It's happened twice. Other people it never happens. Yeah. And whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I don't know. Because you know, what you think is uh as long as you're in that constraint of doing it to make the film as a whole as well. Yeah. If you can do that, it'd be good. Yeah, who knows?
Paul Atkins: 56:00
Yeah. So for that for that sake now, you're you're recovering from your uh surgery and just seeing what happens and not putting your camera down.
Hugh Freytag: 56:12
No. No. Um and I'm just the last two or three months I wasn't shooting photos at all, but suddenly in the last two or three weeks, it's gone bang again. So I'm very happy because I was a bit worried before. That may have stopped it.
Paul Atkins: 56:28
Yes, may have stopped it. Oh, you didn't. You obviously just you're getting it out of your system now and getting back into the flow. I think so. That's the weather. The weather's incredible. Actually, I felt it too when the mornings were bright at sort of six o'clock, six thirty, when you started to feel the sun. Yeah. Well, not the sun so much, but just the light. Yeah. It made a big difference for me too. Yeah. Uh I don't I've never really suffered from what's now called seasonal affective disorder, where people just struggle with heaviness of winter and that. But this year, for some reason, it just felt extra. Well, we all the seasons were very late this year.
Hugh Freytag: 57:04
Yeah. We had an extended summer. Yep. And we've still got winter happening, even though it's trying not to be. It's just proper spring. Yes. Frosty mornings and warm days. Yes, it's the cold. Yeah. I just need to take photographs. And that's what I do. That's all I can say. And uh I don't have a big money base. I don't make lots of money from it. I don't try and treat it like a big business, like portrait people uh take photographs of people, yes. But I should actually ask for money. I should, yeah.
Paul Atkins: 57:41
That would be nice. I mean, in a perfect world too, Hugh, how nice would it be to be tapped on the shoulder and say, let's let's do a exhibition at the Art Gallery of South Australia of your work. Yes. Um, I know I think that, and I keep saying to people, is that your secret dream, really? You would you like to have your work shown somewhere like that or a book made or a Well I I'm I've been talking about things with a few people about books.
Hugh Freytag: 58:04
Um I'm going to try and produce two books early late next year. Oh wow. So talking with people that know certain people who print things and stuff, so we'll see.
Paul Atkins: 58:15
Cool. Well, let's um let's wrap up here. But remember to watch your feed for what's going to happen with with this. Because I think that would be a natural expression of your work. I'll I mean I really enjoy Instagram and watching your work, but I think it deserves a little bit more. And I'm not sure what that is, and that's not for me to decide. But um uh yeah, well, congratulations on on everything here and on surviving this year. Surviving this year. Incredible. Um still a smile on your face and the desire to take pictures. Yes. That's all you can do, really. It is. It is. Thank you.
